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Post by Lindy on Apr 9, 2009 3:11:28 GMT -10
"I think that sometimes fans tend to hero worship the star they like for no other reason but what they have in their minds, what they created in their minds about them." Absolutely. We have seen plenty of that elsewhere. I expect that is why some are so disappointed or devasted when someone we admire (for their professional and public work) takes an action or decision with which we don't agree. We might speculate and try to make of public statements what we can. But fact is, we don't really know their psychology at all. I really like that David presents conflicts and cotradicitions to others, another human struggling to understand himself. Thank goodness he is dynamic and fluid (yep, in my mind). Bland doesn't do it for me.
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Post by maggie on Apr 9, 2009 8:15:00 GMT -10
It's a shame really but alas there are people out there who either forget or in some cases don't grasp that their Heros or Heroines are actually Human Beings as are we and they are not Gods or perfection on legs. Therfore they are going to make mistakes and have ideas etc that we don't always agree with but that is what makes them Human Beings . maggie
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Post by sunshine68 on Apr 13, 2009 3:58:48 GMT -10
I agree with the statements made that DC is indeed a human being and I wouldn't doubt his ability to be caring but I won't ever stand before you and say I 'know' him because I don't - and anyone who makes such a claim is indeed fooling themselves unless you have a long term friendship or intimate knowledge of exactly what the person's personality is like. The rest of us are left with what is presented either in print or via video and it's very easy to get swept away with what is presented before us. I don't have to agree with all he says or how he presents himself - as a person in the limelight, I feel some of these folks need to take greater responsibility for how they present themselves because of being in the public eye. They forget that they can be influencing factors to our young people. I still stand firm that I would thoroughly enjoy the opportunity to speak with him as he seems the type to hold his own in conversation - even if I disagreed with him. We can be fans and we can hero-worship - it becomes unhealthy when you cross the line though. Even more so, I would love the opportunity to share in his wisdom and perhaps share mine with him... all in the way of friendship.
to Sanne, no I did not take offense to your posts - they were respectful and still got your point across. I did however feel bad with what Margaret1234 said in questioning me as a fan. I've said my peace on this matter and honestly - I don't feel I was being overly hard on DC for noticing what I felt was a rather "haughty" attitude being presented. Yes, the article was 15 years old - and yes, I hope he's taken a softer tone today. As a fan, I'd hope that if I ran into him somewhere that I'd meet a gentle respecting soul with which to share conversation on various aspects of life. Would I mention to David if I saw something less than desirable in his attitude? You bet. Not because I want to destroy him - but to help him be a better more likable person. I'd accept the same in return - constructive criticism if meant to help is most definitely welcome in my eyes. The challenge is whether or not others can do the same.
what's that old saying? You get more with honey than with vinegar.
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Post by margaret1234 on Apr 13, 2009 5:52:36 GMT -10
OH MY…….there is a saying in the UK that goes “If the cap fits …wear it”
So far I have refrained from mentioning any names but as you have seen fit to mention my name specifically then I will now address you as Sunshine68 and I would say to you the lady doth protest too much. I didn’t actually say you were NOT A FAN……I simply said why a fan? You are hardly ever around on this board and expect me to agree with what you say when you do……..then I am very sorry to say I do not.
I wrote a message a few days ago but decided against it as in the current circumstances I thought it was perhaps not the best thing to do. However, as you have seen fit to continue………this is what I had proposed posting.......
I have just sat and re read all these 6 pages and I am pleased to see we had a wonderful discussion thread going on here….the best one for a very long time. From a personal point of view I am very pleased to see that most of us saw nothing wrong with this Playboy article either. I am not against any one being critical of a point of view but there are good ways of being critical and bad ways of being critical. Criticisms given with respect ( a word I have read many times here) are fine, However, some criticisms can be as arrogant as some of the arrogance that David has been accused of and this in my book is hypocritical.
Somewhere along the line I think we went off topic a bit…….this is a thread to discuss DC and not about things such as drugs or anything else unrelated to this article.
Having had time to think about some of the things I have said I am still of the opinion there is nothing wrong with what DC said in response to any of the 20 questions, taking into account his perception of things meaningful to him at the time. If all in the article is true then I repeat what I said before he answered with intelligence to every point raised.
A few say he is a great actor but do not always like what he says….so what? What he says is part and parcel of the man. It is often said that most actors show something of themselves in their acting and I happen to believe this is very true. So would any of you who don’t like some of the things he said have had David change so much that you would never have seen any of the great performance’s we have seen from him and that you profess to admire him for? Would we have seen all those wonderful expressions of his…..his sensitivity in films like Kiss of Death, Black Point, Deadlocked or his wonderful comedy as in Mad, Dog and Glory….and even the villain type character he can play so well as in Body Count…...just to mention a few.
Some say they do not like some of the things he said but have not said what answers they did not like or the reasons for their dislike but surprisingly none said which questions and answers actually gave rise to disquiet.
Right…….I will come off my SOAPBOX now…….. and this is the last time I get involved in a discussion thread so you have at least achieved that Sunshine68.
Margaret
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Post by ohiogranny on Apr 13, 2009 6:34:40 GMT -10
Oh dear. Discussion threads without people with whom to discuss is something I don't even want to contemplate.
Margaret and Gonsy co-operated at my request to find and post the Rolling Stone article, also from several years ago. I thought it would be such a good comparison to read about DC's serious side in the 'Playboy' article and then get exposed to his whackier side in the 'RS' article. But nothing really developed regarding that and that's okay.
There are as many facets to this man as there are in a diamond ring --- he is, indeed, a diamond in the rough, and I begin to suspect now that no woman will ever polish those sharp edges; that "edginess" is the secret to his success as an actor. It may also be the secret to his lack of success as a partner. Wife, Margaret, came the closest to giving this man some polish.
@margaret: loved your assessment of DC's traits in the movies he's made --- you are right on target from my point of view. I'm not even going to pay attention to your claim of no longer participating in discussion threads; if I suspect this is really happening, I will be all over you like flies on a sweaty horse --- and that's a fact!
Karen
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Post by sanne on Apr 13, 2009 6:50:28 GMT -10
There are as many facets to this man as there are in a diamond ring --- he is, indeed, a diamond in the rough, and I begin to suspect now that no woman will ever polish those sharp edges; that "edginess" is the secret to his success as an actor. It may also be the secret to his lack of success as a partner. Wife, Margaret, came the closest to giving this man some polish. @margaret: loved your assessment of DC's traits in the movies he's made --- you are right on target from my point of view. I'm not even going to pay attention to your claim of no longer participating in discussion threads; if I suspect this is really happening, I will be all over you like flies on a sweaty horse --- and that's a fact! Karen Completely agree on the 1st part.... And for the 2nd part........I'll be your "partner in crime"......I don't think anyone should stay out of a discussion, no matter how overheated it can get. So far we've always been able to handle these kind of discussions and I truly hope it will stay that way......with EVERYONE participating who wants to and feels like it. Sandra
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Post by tanyadell on Apr 13, 2009 7:39:00 GMT -10
well all I can say is what DC does in his personal life is between him and his maker and will never affect how I feel about him!
tanya
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Post by sunshine68 on Apr 13, 2009 7:50:56 GMT -10
. and this is the last time I get involved in a discussion thread so you have at least achieved that Sunshine68. Margaret Margaret, I think the least one could do is offer a little respect for someone who doesn't necessarily agree with you. You asked 'why a fan?' I explained why. I am a fan - just not one who's going to be out tossing my panties and bra at him as some obsessed person. I don't think we all need to agree but to agree to disagree. That's where conversation here will fall apart. I see things differently. Am I not entitled to interpret differently and hold my own opinions? Tanyadell is right - if it doesn't directly affect us, then yes, that is between he and his maker. However, does it excuse someone having poor behavior out in public? That is a question I'd be curious to see people respond to. As a teacher, seeing how stars influence young people, I would want to hold my fave people to higher expectations just on that alone. Nuff said there... not for anything, Margaret, I don't spend much time here because I don't have much to spend - I'm not even on my own fan site due to time constraints. So, does that mean that because I don't obsessively follow along all threads on these forums that I am not allowed to pop in here and there when topics tickle my fancy? to the owners here, please accept my apologies... I'll slink back into the dungeon folks feel I should return to... I'll remove myself from further discussion too...
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Post by sanne on Apr 13, 2009 8:21:36 GMT -10
If everyone starts to withdraw from any form of discussion, why have a "DISCUSSION-thread"? I'm going to repeat myself : no-one should crawl back into his/her dungeon, his/her shell, or under his/her rock, only because we don't all share the same opinion. That's the "fun" of a discussion....that we are all different people and have different opinions......and as civilized people (at least that's what I thought we all are in here, though maybe a bit crazy because of a certain red-head), I think we should be able to discuss any kind of topic without hurting/offending others..... Sandra
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Post by maggie on Apr 14, 2009 0:57:34 GMT -10
I was going to keep quiet here but this discussion I feel has now become too intense not just a discussion.We all have varying ideas and views that is a fact of life . Let's all agree to disagree on some aspects . All I would add to this is ...... just accept David warts and all and appreciate that 15 years is a long time and in that time the majority of people do change some more than other but we do change. I know as I have said before I did and said things 15 years ago that look at in horror now. At that time I was in public territory so most of it has been recorded by the lovely people we call news reporters and I might add some of the articles I didn't even reconise it was me they were talking about .. They don't like good news whether it be papers or magazines they only like to sling the mud in general ... they don't care who suffers from it as long as they have an article to print .They twist things that you say to fit what their readers want . So no we never really know the true person ... I do actually know someone who when in need David helped and according to them he is a genuine and lovely guy.... as I say according to them. That is all all I am saying on this matter . Let's all have a big hug and just enjoy our favourite Red Head . maggie
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Post by HoratioCalleigh on Apr 15, 2009 4:26:37 GMT -10
I got totally into this conversation through the readings. I miss this about the board and I admit I have not been as active as I use to be with this board. With school and work, they have somewhat taken over for now and I had to resign the fact that my "hobbies" or interests are taking a back seat for now.
since I got involved in the readings I want to respond. I appreciate Gonsey for posting the article. Thank you so much for posting it. What I personally found a little bit odd was the questions. But t then remembered it was "Playboy"article. Such personal random questions were asked but then remembered it was in the Playboy manner. I bet if you found other articles that other actors have given for Playboy they would sort of be like this one. I say this because I remember years ago reading a article from Playboy that Robert Blake did. The questions were as weird as David's were. Playboy seems to like to center the interviews about sex and try to get real personal about that. It kind of made me laugh actually.
Yes I took in account that the article is from the 80's probably early 90's. Robert Blake's was done in the 70's but like I said they were a lot alike to me. Not that habitually I read Playboy articles but for me the two articles questions were similar. This is what I personally saw.
I can relate to the part of the article where David divulges that he needs to have things done "his" way. For me at this stage in my life I too have to have the laundry done a certain way. This could make a lot of room for contention with my housemate but since I am the one that does the laundry I get to have it done my way. If my housemate offers to lighten my load by offering to help me with the laundry I use to say "no thanks" and do it myself. This is because no matter how many times I explain the procedures she can't seem to remember how each type of load needs to be done. Now that may sound demeaning but I also realize that my housemate does laundry differently and a person will tend to stick to their knowledge of something even if explained a different way of doing it. Over the years she has learned that I need the control over the laundry and she accepts this as my "quirk". I perfer to do the laundry myself but if she insists she can do a load that I know she can "handle". This sounding strange...yes. We have roomed together since 2001 and we get along every well. I can be a control freak about certain things, she is laid back enough to let me have this need. This works for us. In that respect I understand David's need for a thing to be done in his way. I don't think he is trying to be controlling I just think that he needs that control. I also can understand how this can be perceived as a negative because of the "other side" of having to experience someone who is like this.
Caruso probably still has some need to have control or be a control freak about some things and issues. I too still need this myself but have over the years learned when not to push this issue onto other people. Especially since my cancer I have to say its just not that important to me anymore that I have that control. For instance when I was laid up and could not do the laundry I had to rely on other people to help me with this. Thus I had to give up that control and let other people help. Through my experience I would say that Caruso has probably mellowed in this area. Us control freaks normally do mellow with age.
The Good Rebecca
edited out words that are not allowed
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Post by ohiogranny on Apr 15, 2009 5:35:43 GMT -10
Hey, Good Rebecca, it is so very good to see you back and taking the time to contribute in such an enlightening way. What with coping with cancer and being busy with your studies, I can understand why you have not given this board a high priority.
One of the things that amazes me about this board is what subjects bring the dialog out in people. Who knew that laundry and dishwashing issues would cause such a comotion? I certainly did not! I really thought a lot of people would have a lot to say about the house in which DC grew up (another post) --- the posting of that picture hardly made a blip on the board as only a few people responded to it. Very few people respond anymore to the new episodes of CSI:Miami. Of course only those of us in the US or Canada sees them and many who are in a different season do not want to read "spoilers". Still, new episodes used to generate much more conversation than they do now.
Do you see changes in the board from when you were more active? Are we less chatty and more creative? Are we still focused on David Caruso or are we more interested in each other? You were such a valuable contributor to this site "once upon a time" that I (and perhaps others) would really appreciate your input on this now.
Karen
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Post by sanne on Apr 15, 2009 6:35:40 GMT -10
I know you didn't ask me, Karen, but I'ld like to add my 2 cents on this. In the almost 3 years I'm around now, I have noticed the board has changed. There used to be more focus on pics and discussions. Especially the threads in which the (new) epi's were discussed could reach 3 or 4 (maybe even more) pages. The fact that those discussions are less now in my opinion is due to the fact that: a. several of the "abroad" members don't want to know what's ahead and therefor don't read/participate in the epi-discussions. b. we've lost quite some (American/Canadian) members who used to participate in those discussions. c. we've had discussions that were cut off because they were getting too far off topic, or because they were getting way out of line and turned into offensive, hurting and respectless "personal attacks" to members. Don't get me wrong, in both situations something has to be done and usually the only way to stop it is close the thread and with that the discussion. In return we have more members who make fanart/write fanfiction, so the focus is more on that part of the board, instead of on the discussions. I'm not saying I don't like the fanart/fanfiction, because I love to watch/read all that stuff as well, but I do miss the discussions as well. Especially the new episode discussions. Maybe because I'm one of those who doesn't mind reading the spoilers and I love to read all the reviews. Especially the different points of view about the weak and strong points of the epi. I remember I used to re-read those discussions before I watched the epi when it was aired over here, because it made me watch it differently compared to when I didn't know what it would be like. And sometimes I agreed, sometimes I thought it was better or less than I read in the reviews from you all. So yes, things have changed, but is it less interesting now? I think that is very personal. Someone who comes in here for the discussions: yes, I can imagine the feeling that the board is not as "good" as it has been. For someone who comes in for having a bit of fun together, wants to see fanart/read fanfiction, (occasionally) have a bit of discussion and watch (new) pics......no, the board is not less to what it has been. As much fun as before, just different....... For what it's worth....... Sandra
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Post by HoratioCalleigh on Apr 15, 2009 7:06:06 GMT -10
Just got back from setting up the A/V needs for tonights classes.
I don't think I have looked around enough to make assessment of how much the board has changed. What I have been doing is checking in every once in a while and reading about the things that interest me. Most of the time I do not post because I either do not have the time or I don't have anything to say. I admit that I do not come on here as often as I use to. Although I still enjoy CSI Miami and like David Caruso I think I am not as passionate about the two as I use to be. The past year has been very eventful and I just don't see things in the same light anymore. Example would be that I changed my background on my home PC to a picture of Obama where I use to have this really nice pic of David Caruso.
Sometimes I think that most of my interests and hobbies have taken a back seat of late. I am close to graduating and need to set up and perform an internship for my major. This is NOT easy...as the economy shows even in the computer forensics field as well because I am having a very hard time setting up my needed internship much less looking for a job. This is why I am starting the job search now before the end of the year. I am even applying for said jobs.
I do still enjoy the board but I feel as with all things the change in membership affects the flow of the board's direction. Is this a fair assessment?
Got to get back to my paper...its due tonight....nothing like last min writing.
The Good Rebecca
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Post by Dr. Anna McBreadle on Apr 16, 2009 4:06:25 GMT -10
i have to agree with karen and sandra, the board has changed. i've been on here for 2 1/2 years and there used to be alot of discussions going on. we used to have a thread for good news and bad news and a thread to talk about what's bugging us right now. nowadays, we do that on our own 'profile threads' or we post a new thread just for that specific piece of news. nothing wrong with either of these, i'm just stating how things have changed. that could be the reason why the new good news/bad news thread didn't take off. when i first joined, i used the coputers at the library. i only got an hour at a time per computer but it would take me an hour to catch up with all of the threads so i barely posted! i always has to book an hour on one computer to catch up here then an hour on another computer to do anything else. the library only allows 2 hours per person. nowadays, i'm in almost everyday. both karen and sandra's right in the fact that we seem to be more creative now, i know i am. i've done seven stories since january and i have over 150 WP's, banners and avators on my photobucket account, that since august last year when i first got connected at home. saying that, i have noticed that there is a slowing down in discussions in those threads aswell. the pic of the day threads used to be a couple of pages long each day but thats slowed right down. i love this board and the people on it (even if i am encouraged to go into the gutters, mentioning no names ) and this sort of conversation can bring out in us alot of emotions (i do remember a conversation not so long ago with got out of hand but i won't say anything about it) but this is what we're here for, to discuss and put our points across. there's nothing wrong with a heated discussion just as long as it doesn't go to a personal level. as for the article, i found it rather funny about DC's comments on housework. i have to admit, i don't like anyone else doing my ironing, even when i was with alisha's dad, he wasn't allowed near the iron and ironing board. i like to iron in a certain way and fold the clothes in a certain way. if someone else starts doing, i get agitated (alisha's dad learnt the hard way not to do the ironing) and its the same when i hang the clothes up to dry, i have certain ways to do things. i'm sure everyone else does so i personally can't see why people are getting so wound up about how DC used to do his housework back in the 80's/90's, he might have changed how he does things. i know i have in the last 15/20 years. sorry this has been long winded, i was trying to stay out of this one but i couldn't help it! sorry! luv sam x
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